Author Topic: I would just like to say..  (Read 14268 times)

Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2009, 01:30:41 AM »
I 'm going to give you a brief explanation of why all of them sound so similar, ...i originally wasn't planning on going this technical about it but given the circumstances, i will.

(...)

You can arguably say they do not sound the same but ultimately all their sounds have derived from the same fundamental pieces of software.

I'm not sure that's fair though. Not all bands that use guitars sound the same. You can be different even if you're using the same instruments. The similarities are the fault of lack of desire to be different, not lack of opportunity.


They sound the same to me (guitar bands).  I've actually become generally disinterested in guitar based music because of the limited range of technical variance achievable with a standard 3 or 4 piece band, as compared with electronic music. 

I think the groups that create novel compositions are considered exceptional, regardless of genre, and regardless of the instruments or sounds available.  What's the difference between Chopin and Schubert, for instance?  Both composed for the piano, which has a very limited tone color, yet they produced quite different pieces and are both considered masters.

Maybe the point Berger Stahl has made is that, given the same set of sounds and tools, the lack of creativity inherently results in similar music. 

 
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Offline Lexus

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2009, 04:42:00 AM »
I 'm going to give you a brief explanation of why all of them sound so similar, ...i originally wasn't planning on going this technical about it but given the circumstances, i will.

(...)

You can arguably say they do not sound the same but ultimately all their sounds have derived from the same fundamental pieces of software.

Which is exactly what I said about saying all metal sounds the same because they all use guitars. Still, compare Behemoth with Dimmu Borgir or Children of Bodom and youll see they sound nothing like each other. And if you cant hear the difference, I suppose youre just tone deaf then :P

So, they all use the same sort of software. What do you expect? Want them to first write their own software from scratch?
And yes, they have a lot of things in common. Thats why they all fall under the category Aggrotech.

But yeah, thats a personal choice you make. Either like 1-2 groups from each genre and dub everyone else imitators for using the same software or look beyond that and like a lot more. Thats just your taste and its quite pointless to discuss taste. 

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Offline Berger Stahl

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2009, 11:41:22 AM »
I 'm going to give you a brief explanation of why all of them sound so similar, ...i originally wasn't planning on going this technical about it but given the circumstances, i will.

(...)

You can arguably say they do not sound the same but ultimately all their sounds have derived from the same fundamental pieces of software.

Which is exactly what I said about saying all metal sounds the same because they all use guitars. Still, compare Behemoth with Dimmu Borgir or Children of Bodom and youll see they sound nothing like each other. And if you cant hear the difference, I suppose youre just tone deaf then :P

So, they all use the same sort of software. What do you expect? Want them to first write their own software from scratch?
And yes, they have a lot of things in common. Thats why they all fall under the category Aggrotech.

But yeah, thats a personal choice you make. Either like 1-2 groups from each genre and dub everyone else imitators for using the same software or look beyond that and like a lot more. Thats just your taste and its quite pointless to discuss taste. 


Give any two painters the same tools, lets say Vincent van Gogh, and Henri Rousseau...
Both have the same brushes and paints, but use vivid colors and emotional impact, from which you could classify them as post-impressionists, but just because they're both considered modern artists, doesn't mean their work is anything similar or alike. Same could be said about those Metal bands you mentioned, they all have a lead singer, a guitar, a bass, and drums, but is their own applied skill and talent what makes them unique under a similar genre.

Same goes for this Aggrotech bands, which due to certain basic similarities & tool-sets, one classifies them as "Industrial", unfortunately due to their lack of creativity & originality, they bring nothing innovative to their sub-genre.

But anyways, im dropping this as it appears the last resource for ignorance, has turned into personal attacks.

Offline Berger Stahl

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2009, 12:19:50 PM »


Yup, that's me in the picture,... lol ....   



Offline Shirow

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2009, 12:27:39 PM »
I'm with you from the standpoint that a lot of these bands bring nothing new. I still don't think this is because of their tool choice though, it's because of their lack of ambition to be new.

There's nothing wrong with making a good song that has no 'artistic merit' (in that it's completely derivative.) What I'm personally tired of is the fact that 'a good song' has come to mean 'distort your voice until it's painful to listen to and yell stupid shit over a tedious synth line'

That's all :)
Simon "Shirow" Westlake
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Offline Berger Stahl

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2009, 12:55:43 PM »
I'm with you from the standpoint that a lot of these bands bring nothing new. I still don't think this is because of their tool choice though, it's because of their lack of ambition to be new.

There's nothing wrong with making a good song that has no 'artistic merit' (in that it's completely derivative.) What I'm personally tired of is the fact that 'a good song' has come to mean 'distort your voice until it's painful to listen to and yell stupid shit over a tedious synth line'

That's all :)

This is exactly my point ....



PS - Babyland Sucks

Offline creepster

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2009, 01:03:43 PM »
rwar?
Theory is when you know everything and nothing works.
Practice is when things work, and no one knows why.
Here we combine theory and practice.
Nothing works and no one knows why.

modified, taken from bash.org

Offline Shirow

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2009, 02:09:44 PM »
BABYLAND ROOLZ OK?
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Offline Disease.of.Dysfunction

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2009, 05:35:30 PM »
OK Babyland rules they just need to work on the vocals some more. :) but if your going to involve an argument over different genre such as Metal I'm actually knowledgeable in that area so your kind playing with hot fire there because I heard the word Metal as a listener of a wide variety. lol
I'm not going to lecture about it sense this is not the forums to do it on but I well add my 2 cents.
That is when you say all metal sounds the same it's the wavelength on which you can understand it's like a funny code you don't understand until you decode the frequency. Looking at this in a scientific way if you prefer not to blame human emotions that drives us to listen to any music in the 1st place then I call it the frequency. :P Anyway unfortunately to understand another human u must be emotional therefore frequency gets canceled out as the solution. the same frequency as u call guitar sounds. The major difference between techno and metal is metal ppl rather listen to the lyrics that the artist artistically writes in there songs more then the beats so beats can sound shitty but the lyrics if there good and obviously has any kinda of emotional meaning other then your "emo" mainstream crap then you connect with the singer or band a lot more quicker. You then decode the guitar sounds of a metal band and start to understand what makes them different from other metal bands. This applies to all metal bands and reason why possible why there going to sound the same because even though instruments do matter and make little difference, the message that they give intelligently I might add or enlightening by vocals maybe is more important then just noize and you can see past the "all metal sounds the same" crap excuse. :) As for techno it's opposite instruments matter that's the variable between the mixes and numbers. So frequencies although many techno type of groups don't speak much they won't have an emotional message through the instruments, but possible there creative mixed frequencies that the body gets instead of brain. :) Bah I don't know why I bother explaining lol I understand though as a Metalhead listener. However back to the argument from the sound of it the majority of industrial groups mix vocal lyrics and frequency beats it's a lot harder in my opinion to produce probably cause you go to keep that balance and without balance it's just going to fall apart. Like NEOMACH was saying earlier in the thread. Most good Metal bands I know either evolve by forming a new group or band while keeping the same sound we enjoy or they just go mainstream and drown themselves like the rest.
This is also why I well at times ask for lyrics in a industrial song because it helps me understand the group more. I may not be hardcore familiar with any industrial groups yet but I'm certain the ones I listen to are creative enough to be different in their own unique way. :) I may be right or wrong but coming from my perspectives this is how i been viewing music for awhile.

1 more thing, that video of Babyland on you-tube with the angel grinder was sick :) I fucking loved it that's some talent! lol

Offline Shirow

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2009, 06:39:12 PM »
Only reason I started listening to this type of music was because I gravitated from metal so no argument here.
Simon "Shirow" Westlake
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Offline xeno

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2009, 02:18:52 AM »
Metal and, well, basically all other music except industrial, shows that you can't
really blame copycat'ing on "using the same instruments".

Also, I think considering Babyland a copycat is overshooting it quite a bit. If you
think that Babyland are copycat'ing Suicide Commando, you probably doesn't like
the entire genre of modern industrial much. I could easily claim that two entirely
different jazz bands sounds too much alike, since I hate the entire genre and
they both just sounds too much like jazz...

There's a lot of copycat'ing going on in industrial - especially in their first records
when they just try to figure out how to make music at all - but the main reason
that the industrial music scene is flooded with music that sounds too much alike
these days is simply that it's flooded with music, without much filtering at all.

Take Endzeit Bunkertracks - in most other genres, maybe one of those bands would
get a record deal, and none would ever hear about the other ones. In industrial,
you listen to a few major bands and 500 hobby projects.

Oh, and I have to say IDM have a larger copycat problem than industrial. A lot of
the music released on IDM labels today (say Tympatic) could easily have been
different records of just one band/person.

Offline Lexus

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2009, 03:46:57 AM »
Its a lot easier to start a side hobby project in the industrial scene then in basically every other scene and type of music. Mostly because you dont need 2-5 other persons to make it sound right. You can do it all by yourself in your spare time.

Maybe thats also the reason why there is so much crap out there. All you need to start your own project is download the right software and produce a sound. In metal or Jazz or whatever, you either need to sing really good or be able to play on a instrument better then the masses.

Not that I care really. I know what I like, and stuff that deviates to much from what I like, I dont listen. And I dont care about stuff being side hobby projects. What does that matter? As long as it sounds good.
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Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2009, 10:06:53 AM »
OK Babyland rules they just need to work on the vocals some more. :) but if your going to involve an argument over different genre such as Metal I'm actually knowledgeable in that area so your kind playing with hot fire there because I heard the word Metal as a listener of a wide variety. lol

I'm not going to lecture about it sense this is not the forums to do it on but I well add my 2 cents.

That is when you say all metal sounds the same it's the wavelength on which you can understand it's like a funny code you don't understand until you decode the frequency. Looking at this in a scientific way if you prefer not to blame human emotions that drives us to listen to any music in the 1st place then I call it the frequency. :P Anyway unfortunately to understand another human u must be emotional therefore frequency gets canceled out as the solution. the same frequency as u call guitar sounds.

The major difference between techno and metal is metal ppl rather listen to the lyrics that the artist artistically writes in there songs more then the beats so beats can sound shitty but the lyrics if there good and obviously has any kinda of emotional meaning other then your "emo" mainstream crap then you connect with the singer or band a lot more quicker. You then decode the guitar sounds of a metal band and start to understand what makes them different from other metal bands.

This applies to all metal bands and reason why possible why there going to sound the same because even though instruments do matter and make little difference, the message that they give intelligently I might add or enlightening by vocals maybe is more important then just noize and you can see past the "all metal sounds the same" crap excuse. :)

As for techno it's opposite instruments matter that's the variable between the mixes and numbers. So frequencies although many techno type of groups don't speak much they won't have an emotional message through the instruments, but possible there creative mixed frequencies that the body gets instead of brain. :)

Bah I don't know why I bother explaining lol I understand though as a Metalhead listener. However back to the argument from the sound of it the majority of industrial groups mix vocal lyrics and frequency beats it's a lot harder in my opinion to produce probably cause you go to keep that balance and without balance it's just going to fall apart.

Like NEOMACH was saying earlier in the thread. Most good Metal bands I know either evolve by forming a new group or band while keeping the same sound we enjoy or they just go mainstream and drown themselves like the rest.

This is also why I well at times ask for lyrics in a industrial song because it helps me understand the group more. I may not be hardcore familiar with any industrial groups yet but I'm certain the ones I listen to are creative enough to be different in their own unique way. :) I may be right or wrong but coming from my perspectives this is how i been viewing music for awhile.

1 more thing, that video of Babyland on you-tube with the angel grinder was sick :) I fucking loved it that's some talent! lol

Paragraphs, dude.  See how much easier this is to read?

And I appreciated your analogy, but my demodulator and band-pass filter is not due to a lack of emotional depth.  I played guitar for over a decade, done a few live performances and the like, and I can assure you that while the lyrics may suit you, the music is, in general, most definitely bland.  As you observed, I (as an industrial/EBM/etc.. fan) don't get off on lyrics very often unless they are just phenomenal or add substance to the sound.  What really gets me all hot and bothered is real, solid, and artistic musical accomplishment. 

I still love a good Melvins album every great once in awhile, but why listen to that when I can listen to something epic.
 
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Offline Disease.of.Dysfunction

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2009, 11:59:00 AM »
Paragraphs, dude.  See how much easier this is to read?

And I appreciated your analogy, but my demodulator and band-pass filter is not due to a lack of emotional depth.  I played guitar for over a decade, done a few live performances and the like, and I can assure you that while the lyrics may suit you, the music is, in general, most definitely bland.  As you observed, I (as an industrial/EBM/etc.. fan) don't get off on lyrics very often unless they are just phenomenal or add substance to the sound.  What really gets me all hot and bothered is real, solid, and artistic musical accomplishment. 

I still love a good Melvins album every great once in awhile, but why listen to that when I can listen to something epic.
 

Thnx for your proof reading I was in a hurry to type it all up and my mind was not on planet earth. ^_^

OK I think I get what you mean. Why listen to something bland like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-eLzao63I&feature=related When you can make it epic by adding this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrQWJv7Dt7I :P and it's not acoustic lMO

Offline Drewthetexan

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Re: I would just like to say..
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2009, 01:16:40 PM »
Sort of, though I don't know that I'd compare Mozart, who is unarguably great, if not boring nonetheless, to Warmen. :) 

That's like comparing heroin to cocaine. I was thinking more like: caffeine << cocaine. (maybe meth would be a better choice for metal!)  :P

Seriously though, the cross genre comparison is a perfect example of how our personal tastes influence our opinions of all music.  Nothing wrong with that.  Most people find acoustic guitar pleasing to hear.  I want to bust the neck off and cram it headstock-first up someone's keister for ruining my day. 

and it's not acoustic lMO

and definitely not acoustic! :)

 

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