Author Topic: Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.  (Read 26718 times)

Offline Psychaotic

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« on: August 05, 2006, 03:38:53 AM »
I am an oldschool industrial lover, in fact, the one who first coined the term Rivethead as part of promoting a club in San Fran I used to put on in the summer of 1990 - sixteen years ago.  (Though Ben Hamper, the GM employee who grew up with Michael Moore in his home town who wrote a book with that for a title, about how fun it is to work in a car factory while being a total hell raiser, apparently he actually invented the WORD, but no one was using it to refer to music before I did it.  Big deal.)

I'm probably way older than everyone in this forum, but you never know these days - sometimes I get surprised.

Sometimes, I get depressed, though: and sometimes, is now. Because I wanted to hear some industrial music, and I have been here for an hour and have not heard anything but pop and knockoff club  music.

Something by "Parallel Process" is playing at the moment.  This is what industrial has sunk to? A third generation knock-off of Switchblade Symphony (those girls started that band the year I ran Aggrotech, I knew they'd go somewhere, but too gothy for my tastes, for the most part.)

This seems to be one knock-off template and we all know the other one: Front Puppy Skinnyline Assembly.  And what do you know, the next thing that plays is Covenant.  Jesus Christ hanging upside down from a disused phone-pole, this stuff sucks.  16 years and still every band sounds the same. The Switchsymphony Symblade and the FPSA sound is EVERYWHERE, with even the better new bands only adding a micron of originality here and there.

I've been messing around with enough audiosofts lately to know that THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY DIFFERENT SOUNDS you can make on your own computers, folks, and this still-the-same thing leads me to conclude that no one is daring to be adventurous with their music out of a phobic fear of Not Being Played.

But why? This should NOT be happening with underground internet streaming media, damn it. Now back in my day (yeah, I know, this is turning into that annoying sort of rant old people always are spouting - but man, this is really a spot with me)  it used to be an industrial band HAD to do IBM or IDM in order to get any exposure because clubs - not radio at all - were the only places that dared play anything remotely industrial. (And what the hell is the difference there, would someone please tell me? i can't for the life of me hear any.)

So now here it is 2006 and a plethora, a SLEW of digital streams are out there to go take a dip in--it doesn't HAVE to be dance music any more to get PLAYED!

Hooray, I think, I'm going to get to hear some new and I want to go whitewater rafting over a waterfall and surf a hurricane, in other words KEEP ME OUT OF THE SHALLOW WATERS at all costs.  I finally get broadband installed this week, grudgingly install Realplayer, grit my teeth after watching a TV commercial and then type "industrial" into the searchbox and you come up.

You apparently have the same rules for your content as any club would have had.

I have a very strong feeling that you would not play anything like Choronzon.  It's not dance music, it's sure as hell not pop.  It's not Einsturzende Neubauten or Das Ich either but those are influences. We don't even call it industrial since we don't want it associated with this knockoff shite, we call it Xeno, which means, from somewhere else entirely, and that's more accurate.

Do you ever play any REAL industrial? And yeah, I know that fist fights break out over whether a band is real industrial or not, and even in my day it got ridiculous...But sheesh, there's a limit.  "Never Look Back"? God, this is putrid.  There isn't even any noise in the pop - oh, there's a synth-widget doing a sweep every 16th beat, BFD.  Get this out of here.

Front 242 are the only band that ever - in my not too humble opinion - EVER successfully did pop industrial, and it was really enhanced by the intriguing LYRICS.  These guys were geniuses with multiple meanings and in multiple languages yet (being from Belgium, that's how they THINK) and I spent a few hours talking to Jean-Luc DeMeyer, and that man is very, very intelligent.  Which is why that last Front 242 album was...unlistenable, rave music, wtFFFFFUUUU? No Jean-Luc? Who's that new guy? Oh man. It's hard to lose a favourite band to sell-out, but I did, and it hurt.  Then John Balance died and no more Coil.  

This is weird, I just realised I don't even know what would be my favourite band any more, except that I do, the answer is way obvious. My own.  

I could be making music right now instead of listening to this insipid crap, I've been here and the last six songs you've played have all been 120bpm pop with salt-shakerfuls of noise added to be 'edgy'.  Now I know what all my friends who like the sort of thing Choronzon does, which I will admit is going to be too bizarre for 99 percent of your tastes, and out of the three of us, one is a musician and another (myself) is a feedback sculptor. Choronzon is the third member and is...well, from Somewhere Else entirely. :wink:

But the stuff we do isn't ambient closet futzing about either, it's psychotic, conceptual, and besides destroying and re-assembling industrial to be more true to its original manifestos it destroys occult/religious cliches as well.  There's some people who can't take our totally bizarre thinking: that there is no good and evil, only chaos and order...that "God" and "Satan" are on the same team, so to speak, and always have been...that sex is possible without ever touching bodies together...and don't even get me started on politics, which are not in the MUSIC at all but behind it, like these other things, plenty.  That's just for starters.  

P. Emerson used to do black metal but that turned itself inside out and became Choronzon.  He had a project called that, and I had a project with the SAME NAME, we'd both been doing this for fifteen years (with mine inactive for a long stretch when I didn't have access to equipment; I just switched over to different media while I waited...) and then in '02 I'm looking up the name for a lark and his site comes up.  My jaw dropped, I wrote him, told him I started a noise project with the same name as yours in '89, he writes me back telling me that was the SAME YEAR his began.  

What else could we do but merge them. I knew it was going to be interesting but things have happened with this experiment I never knew possible, and I'll leave it at that. The site where you can hear this if you're the daring stuff is on my profile. I was thinking of sending it here, but I can see it's not the right format for this station, unless the Friday night show is more mainstream by default, which is the way some streamers do things.  Can anyone tell me if there's a show at Digital Gunfire that gets into more outre' stuff?

I'm spoiled, forgive me, in my day, people had a LOT more imagination in their music.

Goddamnit, why does every - EVERY - band that gets signed to any sort of "label" these days - even an indie - utterly lack imagination? Even industrial - the style of music I love most along with old psychedelic bands, is ruining itself by the new projects and bands alike ('bands' jam together and do live gigs, 'projects' do not) are melting into a mainstream mold out of fear they'll be making music no-one will hear. Labels are totally neophobic and won't sign anything people can't relate to by tagging it to a sound they are ALREADY familiar with.  And why is this, anyway...?

If anyone guessed "Um, because the Shrubbery tanked the economy and put it all into a war so they could get rich and play Command and Conquer with live human units, people have to have money to eat, and when you have a situation like that, no one ever can afford to be experimental and daring, they are thinking of the rent money and eating next week and the bills, the endless bills, because people use credit cards in ways they were never supposed to and never USED to, not THIS much." you get the diseased AnnCoulter Kewpie doll. Sorry to piss off the neocon fan club, but this disgusts me. It has so many side effects and I just discovered another one.

But that's a rant for another place and time.

I think I know what the other problem is. I know this will ALSO piss off some people - the above probably has half of you foaming at the mouth already.

I think lack of the right kinds of drugs might be contributing to the imagination deficit syndrome. That, and an increase of the wrong kind - antidepressants, flattening agents that destroy sexuality and make people into good little workerbees and small-talkers, essentially idiots who think everything is cool as long as they have proof of this coolness by seeing lots of other people agree that it is, first. Antidepressants,  and those not taking those are regressing to alcohol since in a lot of places things have become so tightassed it's the only thing they can use without becoming unemployed.  When a person goes to work at a convenience store, why do they need a random drug test? They didn't have that in my day, and in my day, the music was 500 percent better.  Connection?

Antidepressants, booze. Coffee. What's missing? The weed. The acid.  The mushrooms.  The people who can take nothing at all but when they hang out at an acid party are on a contact high, all that is missing from this benighted, lame decade.  In America, anyway.  Russian kids are becoming trippers majorly now that the repressive totalitarian government was lifted off their heads and landed squarely...onto America. Listen to some Russian industrial some time.  That stuff is wild, because they aren't having all these problems, or else have ALWAYS been poor and aren't money-obsessed, so are not WORRIED about this crap. (And their businesses don't want the added expense of drug tests?)  Wish I knew WTF they were singing about, but it's cool.  They play that at 'massives' instead of the sappy rave stuff, man, why didn't I study Russian in college like all the wannabe spies did?

Now, I was about to leave you all alone and split but there's a Yavin 4 song playing right now, and what do you know--I actually like this one.  But, it's still got that limited-range-bpm pop template behind it, it's just that Yavin 4 colour beyond the lines and add their own drawings to the colouring book line-drawing of that template.  

That's the best you can do, I guess.  

Hm, is your station underwritten by a corporation, by any chance? Like Real, perchance? That would explain EVERYTHING, and if it's not your fault, please forgive my vitriol.  But this is killing music, try to understand, these guys are as bad as Clearchannel. I had high hopes when your submission form said "No RIAA bands", too...You DID say something about lacking the money to run this, and that usually means you submit to the tyranny of underwriting, and if you are underwritten, you are usually NOT allowed to play anything the underwriters don't think's gonna have 100s of album sales from. In other words anything really "underground."  

Which is sad, because I have a feeling MAYBE if you had freedom to play anything you wanted I'd hear a wider range of industrial besides EBM that hasn't changed a whit in 16 years...

I beg you, reverse the trend, get some bizarre, weird, "What the HELL was THAT, I never HEARD anything like that before! I have to find out who this is so I can get the album!" music in here, PLEASE. Tell your underwriters (if you have any) that you had a really peeved listener who would have bought something if you were allowed to play beyond the template, but instead she took off and went somewhere else".

And it IS time to go work on Choronzon and SHUT THE HELL UP, because I think by now, you get my point already. Funker Vogt is another FPSA band but at least they're passably industrial - and this song's riff says it all.

But where ARE those black market dealers?

"It's the summer of oh-oh-six,
and we cannot get
what we need."
he time to speak truth to power has ended;
the time to wreak power from truth is here.

Offline Jib

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2006, 09:34:53 AM »
Wow.  Where to start.  Congratulations on just getting the Internet.  You seem to be adjusting to it quite well.  First things first, that post was way to long for my short attention span.

Labels,  let's start here.  You use a few labels: rivethead, industrial, pop.  You realize that these terms are completely useless.  Industrial is an extremely broad genre these days.  I am actually surprised you found this site just buy typing in 'industrial' into the search box.  What search engine did you use?  

Rivethead is probably going to be a new hip fashion that all the runway models will be wearing in a few years.  After being emo stops being cool.  Actually I think the rivethead fashion already came and went.  I believe they spawned the emo fashion, so you can be proud of coining that term.

Shirow puts a lot of time, work and money into this station.  I can't stand idly by why you disrespect it just because he doesn't play music you like.  KHITBASH Choronzon,  That crap gives industrial a bad name.

If you don't like the music played on this station, go find a station that you like.  The Internet is huge, actually more like a series of tubes.  There is no point for you hang out here listening to music you don't like.

Now go back to your basement and continue cutting yourself because you are to cool for us.

{This is the last time I'll chime in on the subject,  I'm not getting dragged into a flame war.}

Offline EvilCouch

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2006, 09:13:49 AM »
Digital Gunfire isn't underwritten by anyone.

Shirow does all of this out of pocket and with the exception of a handful of people donating bandwidth or writing custom scripts, he has had absolutely no help from anyone.

The reason the playlist is like it is, is because that's the way Shirow likes it. If he likes a song, he'll put them into the playlist. If he gets bored of one, he'll take it out. He's not kowtowing to any corporate master or bowing to the fickle wants of the people. He's playing music that he enjoys and sharing it, in the hopes that others will enjoy it, also.

By the way, this marketing technique you're using right now is pretty lame.
"Modern Industrial is weak!
You're all kids that don't understand real Industrial!
Your radio station is a puppet!
Want to be cool?
Play my music!"

You're no better than RIAA, Demitria.

Offline sacarasc

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2006, 05:11:30 AM »
maybe time to have DGX pulled out of someones arse? ;p
url=http://www.last.fm/user/osmodiar/?chartstyle=minimalDark][/url]

Offline rskm1

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2006, 09:27:16 AM »
Anytime I hear someone decry the lack of "creativity" in music, I just assume they want to hear experimental.
Industrial has been around for a long time.  It's not new anymore.  Deal with it.

If you wanna hear off-the-wall creative stuff, start up that search engine again, but this time enter "unlistenable experimental crap" as the criteria instead of "industrial".

Offline sacarasc

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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2006, 09:43:32 AM »
for that 'Experimental unlistenable crap', I like KMLP iRadio (http://kmlp.com/)
url=http://www.last.fm/user/osmodiar/?chartstyle=minimalDark][/url]

Offline Shirow

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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2006, 12:41:31 PM »
Thanks for the defense =p

I understand your viewpoint D, but I think it's based in a place where you are perhaps somewhat of an elitist, and I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way (we're all elitists in some way, in that we probably think people that enjoy Britney Spears are inferior.)

However, I think it's a little disingenuous to come to one of the most popular stations (which is clearly lablelled EBM and futurepop alongside the industrial tag) and say that the entire playlist should be changed.

There are stations that play what you're looking for.. they're not particularly popular, but you probably wouldn't like them if they were ;)
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Offline Page

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2006, 02:27:23 PM »
Well put Shirow.


I'm all for hearing 'original stuff' provided its music.

Einsturzende Neubauten might have 1 to 2 tracks per album that I would concider 'music'/ and perhaps 1 to 3 tracks that are 'listenable'.

at that rate it might be rather hard to find something that people are going to like...without have all but 1 listener change stations till something more 'listenable' come back on.


However, she touched on one thing...bpm

I wouldn't mind some tracks that were slower or barely has a beeat at all. could help to mix things up a bit. Just a thought.

Anyhow, you know i like what you're doing here. 8)

Offline rskm1

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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2006, 05:40:57 PM »
Wait a minute...
Did I follow the right link?!?
http://www.darkcelldigitalmusic.net/artists.asp?artistID=13  ??

That sounds like death metal, sped up and played backwards.  I would bitch-slap anyone who called that "industrial" within arm's reach of me.  Good thing you gave it its own genre.

P.S. All the links for "Asymmetrical Red Chamber" are broken.

and just to make sure this thread
shows up when someone searches for
"unlistenable experimental crap":
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap

Offline EvilCouch

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Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2006, 09:26:38 AM »
Quote from: "rskm1"
Wait a minute...
Did I follow the right link?!?
http://www.darkcelldigitalmusic.net/artists.asp?artistID=13  ??

That sounds like death metal, sped up and played backwards.  I would bitch-slap anyone who called that "industrial" within arm's reach of me.  Good thing you gave it its own genre.

P.S. All the links for "Asymmetrical Red Chamber" are broken.

and just to make sure this thread
shows up when someone searches for
"unlistenable experimental crap":
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
Google bombing works better if you link it.
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap
unlistenable experimental crap

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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2006, 09:23:15 AM »
too long to read and too late to get into the whole discussion (since i have not read any post)

what i gathered ("get original/new music") and the author getting music software themselves, i'd bet my right kidney that the music sounds the same all the way through, too

i like the music as it is, period
i dont feel like i need to evolve, period
i love digitalgunfire and the music shirow airs, period

i feel contempt, period

so either step out of line or shut the fuck up
Theory is when you know everything and nothing works.
Practice is when things work, and no one knows why.
Here we combine theory and practice.
Nothing works and no one knows why.

modified, taken from bash.org

Offline deadEd

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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2006, 10:40:36 AM »
Quote from: "creepster"
what i gathered ("get original/new music") and the author getting music software themselves, i'd bet my right kidney that the music sounds the same all the way through, too


Ding ding ding. It's an album-long segue to a song that never comes (New World Chaos is, anyway), pretty much the product of far too much pretension and backslapping and trying so hard to be different for the sake of being different (and turning out to be little more than a boring mess).

To the original poster:

Your biggest problem is your baseline assumption that "what I like=original, what they like=not". It's the worst foot to start on in any musical argument at all. Luckily for you the rest of your argument didn't contain anything of substance that could actually be called constructive in any way, so it didn't matter much this time.

Industrial is a big blanket genre, with many different sub-genres that don't even necessarily sound alike. DG specializes obviously in EBM and Futurepop and the like. Do you not see how drone (or experimental or avant-garde or whatever name you call it to make yourself think you're even slightly unique) might not fit that style? People that listen to this station do it because they enjoy EBM and Futurepop. This notion that they might just be lost souls and haven't been exposed to this AMAZING MUSIC you have is, quite frankly, for the fucking birds.

You know what the nice part about the internet is? Freedom. It's a shame that instead of using your freedom to say, start up your own online radio stream so you and all of your really cool rivethead friends can listen to what you want while you're dolling yourself up to go pose out at some club that's going to play the exact same thing you were just listening to, you instead put all of that energy into asking an EBM/Futurepop station to just play it for you instead, all under the guise of "do u play real industrial". That's pretty weak overall.

Then again, you didn't expect any of this to actually get played (if you did, you would've made some simple band/song requests like anyone else). You just wanted to come here and flex your oh-so-elite opinions and of course, namedrop your own project in the same breath. It would've been way too much to expect you to provide any examples of what you'd like to hear other than your own stuff...not that it'd matter. Even if you do have an ounce of good taste, chances are the end result bands wouldn't come close to fitting along with everything else that plays here anyway.

So please, do yourself (and everyone else) a favour, ditch the rose-coloured glasses and the "it was so much better BACK IN THE DAY" nonsense and realize what is played here. If you like it, fantastic. If you don't, hey, there's tons of other internet radio stations, some of them maybe even elite and WICKED UNDERGROUND enough for you to enjoy.

Offline Khepri

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Re: Get some music with imagination, PLEASE.
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2006, 11:49:30 AM »
What a coincidence!

I invented the acronym "STFU"! The irony!

ROFLMFAO....

I've never seen anyone go to such pathetic lengths to try to get their crap played!

"...after I installed RealPlayer"....muthafucka please....You found this through Streamcast...saw how many listeners were here....didn't like what you heard but liked the listener count...so you figured you'd try to get the "corporate lackey" (yawn) to play your....stuff....

You might get away with that BS on some youngin's here, but it's pretty transparent to me.

If you had any inkling of fairness you'd go whine on all the other Shoutcast stations boards now..... :roll:

So, here's a clue...this stream is as popular as it is *because* of the mix that's played. Set up your own server run your own stream and enjoy the nether regions of the popularity list.

Damn I hate name droppers, like I was telling Trent Reznor the other day!
Old enough to be your dad....

Offline Brojo

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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2006, 03:07:05 AM »
I am proudly wearing my DG t-shirt right now so I thought I'd add my two cents:

Actually Shirow beat me to it about the EBM/futurepop. BUT,
I remember reading somewhere that those subgenres aren't just their own genre, but were infact WAVES of Industrial.
Just plain industrial was of course the first wave,
EBM was the second wave, Elektro the third, Power noise, futurepop etc are somewhere out there or in between or along the sides too.
So what I am getting at is that someone could make the same argument
for any POP station, that they would also have to play the "original" pop from the late 50's and 60's... stuff that people today likely haven't heard of. I don't hear any hard-rock stations play songs from Elvis much, either. Does anyone know of any modern Christian radios that play gregorian chant? (Actually that would be kinda cool!) Well I guess that's about 4 cents but I think I made some sort of a point. DG is kinda mostly about the current/modern stuff in a way.
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Offline rskm1

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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2006, 03:41:00 PM »

 

anything